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Is It Time To Be 100% Honest

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I wrote most of this in word as I was doing research and then edited it and added to it when I pasted it here so if it is a little disjointed that is why.  Emma may choose to ban me from the site for what I am about to say but I have to say what I have learned today. 

A large piece of science shows that Emma has been giving us some half-truths.  Maybe it is because it would adversely alter the life style and the power exchange if all the information was out there.  Science says the male orgasm should happen as part of an extended love making session and not only is it not a bad thing in the relationship but can help make the male find his mate more attractive and want to defend and protect her and make him want to bond more closely.  It will also give him a more intense orgasm.  Her teaching us to separate his orgasm from the act of making love may be counterproductive.   As you will see later in this post she is not being completely truthful with herself about what she and Kevin are doing.  I must confess, I still do not understand the Domme/Sub dynamic. Having the male feel the intimacy, bonding, and special feeling of love that comes from what I have experienced (and the science says is reasonable) may alter the lifestyle so much as to be undesirable.  

After my most recent orgasmic experience, and annoying Stephie with constant attention, I went looking for explanations at various science sites that studied oxytocin.  I learned a lot about what happens to both the male and female during sex and much of it does not agree with the general consensus we see here.  Last night was my first orgasm since Halloween when I experienced a sort of an exorcism.   Last night was the most amazing love I have ever felt and I was apparently smothering Stephie this morning till she told me to go play on the computer or watch a football game or something.  That is what led me to my research. 

Now for the science I dug up on the internet.  I found good information at Makaki Medical Center, Life Science, Biology of Reproduction, webmd, Hormone health network,  and Health Line as well as several sites with lesser credentials on the effects of oxytocin and some of the other chemicals associated with love making and orgasms on both males and females and how it pertains to orgasms.  Fascinating stuff!  

Oxytocin is often referred to as the love hormone or the cuddle hormone.  In both genders it tends to make you desire and want to be close to and bond with your mate.  The more you kiss and cuddle the more of it you produce and the more you want to kiss and cuddle. The more you produce.   A vicious circle of love.  It is true that women do produce more of it than men.  In women it seems to help them with a lot of things like selecting a mate. breast feeding, and other non-sexual bonding things and may (though apparently the jury is still out on this) encourage monogamy.  In men it tends to make their mate seem more attractive than other women and it makes them want to protect her and it also makes him want to fight off competition.  It might discourage poly-friending if that is important to you.  It also may reduce blood pressure.  But in both genders it strongly promotes bonding. 

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One of the more interesting things it does is enhance the orgasm, especially in the male and upon orgasm the pituitary puts out large amounts of it in both sexes because of the “high level of affection” involved.  An interesting side-effect in the male is that oxytocin actually increases, yes increases,  the rate at which testosterone is replaced (several of the scientific sites disagree with Emma’s Ms. Gray)  and shortens the time required for him to want to “reproduce” again.  “It is not uncommon for the male after an orgasm to want to cling to his mate and to protect her.”  (Quote from Biology of Reproduction)  One problem with orgasms for both partners, but especially males, is that serotonin is also produced and the combination of these two tends to cause sleepiness.  This is why men in particular may want to just go to sleep after sex. But if you are willing to continue sensual cuddling and kissing and talking softly the male, not just the female,  will continue to produce oxytocin and the desire to bond and connect with his preferred mate will become strong.  (Also Biology of Reproduction) 

I believe the way Stephie has us make love, she is after all the one who controls it, is why my orgasms are so wonderful and at the same time why instead of wanting to distance myself (Emma’s words) I want to hold her and love her after my orgasm and through the next day.  Our continued snuggling after the orgasm and the talking and closeness produce more oxytocin and the loss of testosterone and release of other negative chemicals is overridden.  She reinforces this Sunday morning with more snuggling before we get up.  If the man’s orgasm comes from his solo masturbation or possibly intercourse that is shorter and more about the sex than the love making, and there is no follow up sensual interaction, then it would make sense that his orgasm would not cause a strong bonding desire and could lead to him being disengaged. 

As I said, I do not understand the dynamic of those here at this site so I can’t recommend what Stephie and I do to you because I don’t know how it fits your life style.  

This part is for Emma and is what I referred to earlier.  I went back to your comment under the “Blue Balls Blog’ (Say that 3 time fast LOL)  and read again about how Kevin now gets to orgasm.  Emma, you are not being totally honest with yourself when you say that you and Kevin separate his orgasms from your love making. This may have been  true in the past but not anymore.  After Kevin makes love to you without him getting an orgasm you then make love to Kevin while he achieves an orgasm that is both physical and emotional.  It may not be via intercourse but you are making love to him just the same.  You look in his eyes in a way that says I love you and you touch him continuously in ways that say more than any words you could speak.  The feeling that comes through in how you wrote about it says you share his emotions when he orgasms in the same way he shares your orgasm emotionally.  If that is not making love then I don’t know what is. 

You have not separated his orgasm from your love making.  You have simply divided your love making into two parts.  He focuses on you and gives himself to you and shows you that special intimacy that satisfies you physically and both of you emotionally.  It gives you the feeling you need of closeness and connection.  You both have a high level of oxytocin and now you focus on  him and show him that same intimacy while he strokes himself to an orgasm.  You do separate your orgasms to ensure the lovemaking is focused on your partner rather than the giver’s orgasm in each case but you have not separated his orgasm from the love making by any stretch of the imagination.  And from the way you wrote about it I have to believe it is better than ever.  Love does that to an orgasm.  This is just how it works best for you.  Stephie and I share a single moment of ecstasy which is perfect for us.  You share two moments which is perfect for you.  It is making love any way you look at it.

Before you kick me out for being insolent I would like to challenge you to add one more aspect to your Sunday mornings.  As he has his orgasm, hold him a little closer and start to make sensual love.  Snuggle, kiss a little, caress each other, talk quietly for a half hour or even better an hour or more.  Let the oxytocin continue to build and override the loss of testosterone.  As the morning progresses, keep him engaged by talking, touching, occasional hugging and a light kiss.  Do things together. None of my resources said anything about teasing but I have to believe that will also cause release of oxytocin and might add a fun aspect. I believe you will find that he will not experience that post orgasm depression and rather than distance himself from you he will continue to show you attention and love.  Not because he has to but because he is feeling that bond and that desire to be close to you, to protect you, and see you as the most attractive woman anywhere.  Apparently in my case this morning to the point of being annoying. LOL

Yes, this does mean you have to show him a little extra attention which may not fit your life style, but instead of pulling back he will be showering you with more attention and wanting to show you how much he loves you.  It is what they call a win-win in my book.

Do not get me wrong, I am not saying you have to start letting him have orgasms all the time.  Just the opposite is true.  Spacing them out to make his orgasms stronger and special is good.  For us, 2 weeks between works well although the last couple of days in the cycle I am getting anxious.  But I don’t believe it is as much about being horny as wanting the moment.  That moment when she surrenders her whole self to me, Body, heart, mind, and soul.  And I give my complete self to her.  That is a feeling of closeness that is so amazing and totally unexplainable.  Yes the other 13 nights of sensual love making are about being close and one with each other but nothing compares to that one moment and the hour or so that follows.  

 
Posted : 14/11/2021 5:22 pm
Macy has keys
(@macy-has-keys)
Estimable Member
 

Dave, I appreciate your research in this matter! Dave has done his homework, primarily siting "Biology of Reproduction" (not a criticism). 

Our hormones and neurotransmitters function to get us (girls) pregnant. The biological function of these chemicals for reproduction is not in question (not a criticism of Dave). These chemicals are still functioning in our bodies today in the same way they did a long time ago. For example, the sexual desires of women are influenced by ovulation. Women are more receptive to intercourse during ovulation, not because we know we are ovulating, but because our chemistry makes our desire increase at this time. 

Clearly, orgasm was not intended to be separate from intercourse. Regardless of a man's body chemistry after ejaculation, it was essential for ejaculation to occur in her vagina for pregnancy. The only orgasm that was important was his!! Today, we have chastity and chastity relationships with different views of this concept, and different views of how male body chemistry after or without ejaculation affects mood, desire, behavior, and relationships. Even how we define what intimacy is. 

There are many theories about the function of these chemicals and their roles in more of a primal setting or time period. The theories seek to explain whether or not intimacy, monogamy, or a relationship or any kind could have developed based on the influence of our chemistries.  Did the man and woman develop intimate relationships like we have today? Was monogamy a thing back then? How did body chemistries influence whether a man and woman developed a relationship or not?

Today, our relationships are mostly defined by our brains. We have the luxury of overriding or ignoring our chemistries to suit or needs and desires. For example, deciding whether or not to get pregnant. Getting pregnant used to be a simple matter of biology and chemistry, and not how much money we make, how many kids can we have without needing a bigger house or car...

Do the realities of our chemistries shape what we want, or think we want from our relationships and intimacy? The desire to sleep together afterwards, or cuddle? His nervous system says fall asleep (parasympathetic tone is now dominant), and her perception is "he wants to be with me" afterwards. Today our brains kick in and say "he's done after he cums" lol! 

I see our chemistries working as they always have and our brains working "with" or "against" those chemistries in ever evolving ways. There are many ways couples have relationships today. There are couples that find intimacy together in many different ways independent of sexual activity or orgasm. 

I am not for or against the argument Dave makes. Dave points out how our chemistries work and how our chemistries might have shaped our relationships in the past and today. I think it's interesting conversation in a chastity context. 

 

 

 
Posted : 15/11/2021 7:51 pm
Sam, Sam and Sam reacted
Sam
 Sam
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Interesting discussion! As always, everyone should reach their own conclusions and conduct their relationship in a way that works best for each couple. Dave, you have obviously researched this topic. However, I would find your commentary more persuasive if you dropped the reference to half-truths from others as a point of evaluation. In my opinion, a simple statement of disagreement would suffice to make the same point less stridently. 

 
Posted : 15/11/2021 8:47 pm
Stevesub
(@stevesub)
Estimable Member
 

You know, I think I agree with you that it's time to be 100% honest.

Almost every time anyone posts something to do with FLR, submission, chastity or T&D, either you, Steph or both pop up to say you don't understand the lifestyle or the dynamic or whatever and then go on to say that your own scene is so much better (which I'm sure it is - for you).

When other members reply, and take the time and effort to explain (as I have myself), you reply that perhaps you partly understand, only to pop up a day later with exactly the same questions, views and criticisms.

Well guess what. This is a FLR, female domination, male chastising, male submission website and I respectfully put it to you both that what you're doing isn't that, so constantly going on about not getting this or that and why can't we be more like you two is akin to me joining a chess club and complaining that they should be playing snakes & ladders.

What we like-minded people are doing isn't particularly science-based. It's kink-based and lifestyle-choice based, so your semi-"researched" "science" (which is wrong on so many levels I don't know, as a scientist, where to start) is as irrelevant as it's flawed.

This post may well get me kicked off, but I think Emma has been superhumanly forbearing with the two of you, especially in consideration of the time and effort it takes to create and maintain a site like this.

I strongly suspect, given that our kinks and lifestyles are not mainstream but hardly rocket science to understand, that the stirring you do is your main objective.

 
Posted : 15/11/2021 10:30 pm
lockedforlynn, djv, lockedforlynn and 3 people reacted
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@sam

You are absolutely right Sam.  I was needlessly obtuse.  I was hung up on the fact that Emma has stated (apparently citing Ms. Gray) that oxytocin reduces testosterone levels.  Several scientific studies say the opposite is true.  Also, she seems to imply several times that the male orgasm does more harm than good to the relationship.  The science says (based on several studies) that the male orgasm when achieved in a “sustained love encounter”  enhances the male bond to his specific partner and makes him unattracted to other females.  The studies implied this is related to the elevated levels of oxytocin.

One study (I don’t recall which site this one was) took men whose partner had made love to them 2 hours before and presented them with attractive, friendly women.  Invariably the man physically backed off.  When their partner was brought to them, they immediately went approached her and showed affection.  When this was repeated with men who had not made love in 3 days, the men did not back off from the attractive non-mates and showed less affection for their mate than the men did 2 hours after an orgasm. 

I did not see any information on this regarding men who had orgasms by solo masturbation but since that would produce little or no oxytocin release, I am assuming (always a bad word) that the results would differ considerably. 

Another study injected men with oxytocin and found that the man again rejected the non-mates but were highly attracted to their own mate.  Oxytocin is released in a loving orgasm in large quantities.  This would indirectly validate the other study.  Apparently, oxytocin and making love to your man will enhance faithfulness.   

As I did point out a couple times.  I do not understand the dynamics of Domme/Sub relationships so these findings may not be applicable to the goals or lifestyle of many of the couples here. 

 
Posted : 15/11/2021 10:38 pm
Deleted User
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@stevesub You are probably right.  We do not belong here.  I will make this my last post and will look for a site that is more vanilla  and is more about loving FLR and less about the kink.

I am sorry to haver upset you so.

 
Posted : 15/11/2021 10:41 pm
Deleted User
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Dave told me about how some members feel about our views here.  I have noticed on a couple of occasions that I was made to feel I was out of place here.  It is unfortunate because I believe Dave and I both profited from both posting and reading Emma’s blogs and many of the forum posts.  I agree with Dave, however, that if we are making people uncomfortable it is in everyone’s best interest if we find some other venue.

 
Posted : 15/11/2021 11:26 pm
Macy has keys
(@macy-has-keys)
Estimable Member
 

@steph I hate to see you guys go! There is a forum called "Chastity Forum" which I enjoy. It is meant for the more vanilla male chastity crowd and has a separate "lounge" for the girls. 

Posted by: @stevesub

This is a FLR, female domination, male chastising, male submission website

I have been participating here, making no secret about how vanilla my relationship is. Nothing in the above statement applies to me with the sole exception of male chastity. I do not dominate my husband or lead the household except in one respect; chastity. It is used to enforce a no masturbation agreement we have, nothing else. I am hoping "that" one common thread of male chastity will be enough to stay engaged here. 

 
Posted : 16/11/2021 2:35 am
true42
(@true42)
Reputable Member
 
Posted by: @stephsdave

@stevesub You are probably right.  We do not belong here.  I will make this my last post and will look for a site that is more vanilla  and is more about loving FLR and less about the kink.

I am sorry to haver upset you so.

I don't think you've upset anyone.

Sure, your kinks are different than everyone else's.

That's why they're called kinks, and not (for example) "normal things that everyone does".

And you're being silly (a bit dramatic) if you think you're not kinky. Kinky is not an insult. It's a realization. And an acceptance.

And your point of view is helpful here. Remember, not everyone fits the same mold, and others can benefit by seeing your thoughts here. If they stand out, then so much the better.

But if you don't feel ok here, then there's not much that can undo that.

 

 
Posted : 16/11/2021 5:21 am
true42
(@true42)
Reputable Member
 
Posted by: @steph

Dave told me about how some members feel about our views here.  I have noticed on a couple of occasions that I was made to feel I was out of place here.  It is unfortunate because I believe Dave and I both profited from both posting and reading Emma’s blogs and many of the forum posts.  I agree with Dave, however, that if we are making people uncomfortable it is in everyone’s best interest if we find some other venue.

I think you two have often been "the life of the party" here.

I don't understand everything you two write. The parts that I do understand, I don't always agree with. But that isn't the point of writing and reading! It's a conversation. People share; others can read, think, and learn.

Anyhow, very sorry to hear that you feel out of place. Life's hard enough when you feel in place ... no need to go making it harder than that 🙁

 

 

 
Posted : 16/11/2021 5:24 am
Stevesub
(@stevesub)
Estimable Member
 

@macy-has-keys 

Hi Macy. I did have a bit of a rant, so it's probably worth clarifying my views here.

My issue with Steph and her Dave is nothing to do with their private activities or predilections, nor with how vanilla they might or might not be. Chastity for many of us is a component of a wider set of kinks or part of a lifestyle - submissive, FLR or whatever. For others it's the totality of their kinks and perhaps even a practical solution to a sexual or emotional issue. All should be equally welcome.

I have absolutely no problem with those who are vanilla, or kinky but less kinky than I, or into much heavier stuff. I like what works for me and my wife and strongly understand that that's just us. My philosophy is that if you're enjoying it and it causes no (non-consensual) harm, respect to you.

But with S and S'sD, I have a strong objection to their continual refusal to accept how many FLR or domme/sub relationships work, to the point of questioning their validity. I note that Emma gets the brunt of this, but also several other contributors too. Added to this, they inevitable continue by describing their own sex lives and their romanticism and fantastic orgasms and cuddling etc, which is completely valid, but then holding it to be superior to those of us who do things a bit differently, which is to my mind definitely NOT valid.

Sexuality, as I'm sure you agree, is far more complicated than LGB, as the current arguments over trans rights and where they can even pee highlight. I believe our various sexual preferences such as chastity, BDSM, dominance/submission are hard-wired as much as acquired and part of our sexual makeup.

If this is true, it follows that to tell someone that their cuckoldry, three-way relationship, dominance over or submission to another person is inferior to their own preference of bedroom equality and romantic snuggling is as wrong and unacceptable as telling a gay person they really would be happier getting it on with women.

It's purely their judgmental attitude I have a problem with, along with a sneaking suspicion that the two characters are actually fictional constructs, and somebody's having a laugh at us.

 

 
Posted : 16/11/2021 11:18 am
lockedforlynn, djv, lockedforlynn and 3 people reacted
Macy has keys
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Posted by: @stevesub

It's purely their judgmental attitude I have a problem with, along with a sneaking suspicion that the two characters are actually fictional constructs, and somebody's having a laugh at us.

Thanks for explaining. I think they are genuine though

 
Posted : 16/11/2021 4:08 pm
soundsofdelight
(@soundsofdelight)
Estimable Member
 
Posted by: @stevesub

 

It's purely their judgmental attitude I have a problem with, along with a sneaking suspicion that the two characters are actually fictional constructs, and somebody's having a laugh at us.

 

I have the same problem with (the two of?) them, nor do I think they are the only ones.

 
Posted : 16/11/2021 5:06 pm
true42
(@true42)
Reputable Member
 
Posted by: @stevesub

It's purely their judgmental attitude I have a problem with

I'm not entirely sure that you won't eventually read that line that you wrote and realize the irony.

 
Posted : 16/11/2021 6:20 pm
subhubphx
(@subhubphx)
Member
 

Huh.  I've been away for a few days.  Did I miss anything?


problems poncho GIF
 
Posted : 16/11/2021 9:28 pm
djv, djv and djv reacted

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