A little introduction

Posted by: @mstara

When I spoke to him about your comments he said that it was a bit like owning an F1 car - fun to play with occasionally but you wouldn't want to drive it everyday.

First, thank you very much for this incredibly thoughtful reply.  I very much appreciate you speaking to him about my comments and letting me know too that your husband's name is Martin.  *tip of the cap and nod in Martin's direction.

I completely understand the attraction that you have for this other man, in whole or in part part to his dangerousness (not the violent kind of course, but the easy charm, panty-dropper kind.  I'm happy for you that this relationship with him is an obvious source of joy for you.  If you are so inclined, do you mind sharing in which ways your relationship with him may be different than your relationship with Martin.  For example, is there a power exchange component wherein one of you or the other plays a more dominant role than the other, even in subtle ways?

The F-1 analogy is very apt in that it is another way of describing the amazing pleasure and joy that, on some level, comes playing/living on that razor thin edge.  That also includes the knowledge that racing an F-1 brings with it a significant higher need for safety to avoid serious or death than say, a regular go to the grocery store car ... which makes it fun to to do.

Again, mine is not to wonder about or question any of those things that bring you pleasure and happiness, or how I might feel being in Martin's shoes given unique-to-me fears/preferences/desires.  

Posted by: @mstara

When I spoke to him about your comments he said that it was a bit like owning an F1 car - fun to play with occasionally but you wouldn't want to drive it everyday.

I find this comparison funny and very fair

@mstara Thank You so much! Do You relate this person with (positive) masculine treats? i ask cause the couple of times my Queen has mentioned it's been related to nice and very masculine people. i have it down to two hypothesis: 

- attraction to what we don't have

- attraction to what we didn't have as children

In our case, it's not something my Queen has been looking for, She had a couple of situations where the attraction just was there. i think one of the things She loves the most in me is i don't have what She perceived as negatives in Her father (ultra dominant, never seeing others' needs). In both situations of attraction, the guys were very masculine (in a nice way). 

i've myself provoked this type of reaction but on the opposite side, being perceived as super caring yet masculine enough for this chemistry by someone who had an ultra masculine guy; i feel she was attracted to me as she didn't have enough care/attention. 

Anyway, for me the task is to find these treats and be open for things that we don't have. Realizing our tendency to sub-sub created problems, i've looked to what else She (and we) might be missing. i wonder if this person has some characteristics that You don't 100% need but that appreciate.

@subhubphx and @khorina5

I'll try to answer both your questions simultaneously.

My husband is a very caring man, he is very masculine without being macho and he's funny and hard working. He is a great family man and we are very close as we've shared so much over the years - both good times and dark ones.
That closeness and familiarity is reassuring and safe, it's something that comes overtime and can't be achieved instantly.
It is also comfortable, easy and an extension of both our personalities. It is predictable, which is both a very good thing and also, sometimes, frustrating and disappointing.
I hope you can see from this that I love my husband very much, I have no desire to not be with him long term and his happiness is very important to me.

Emma wrote an article about 'newness' https://www.evolvingyourman.com/2020/08/19/newness/ and this encapsulates what is happening to us right now, and more specifically me. I know this man isn't a long term thing, but he has fulfilled some kind of gap that I didn't know existed until he came and shone a light on it. Again my husband has come up with a comment, he says it's like a man buying a car - he doesn't always go for the sensible and practical choice but the one that appeals to him emotionally, that gets his blood pumping knowing that it won't be a keeper (You may have guessed that my husband's a car nut!).

So the difference is that this man gets my blood pumping, he's an exciting distraction but not a threat to my marriage. My husband knows this too, he sees this for what it is and takes his own pleasure from knowing that I'm enjoying exploring/experimenting. Call it cuckolding or poly, we haven't put a label on it, but it is something that he wanted for a long time even if he never thought it would happen, and neither did I.

Does it hurt him? Only to the extent he wants it to, which is why I don't rub his nose in it but respond to any questions he may have, I let him drive that conversation. And my proof? Well he gets excited when he knows I'm going to the conferences, suggests clothes I should take and will text me while I'm away to ask how it's going.

this sounds a wonderful arrangement between the 3 of you! but are YOU always in control as You should be? 

Hi Ms. Tara,
I hope you can stand yet another question.

I understand two things. First, I understand the excitement of newness that you experience in this relationship. The excitement that drives sharing of oneself with a new person and secondly I also understand a man’s desire to witness or experience his wife or girlfriends unfettered sexual or erotic desire. I really appreciate Martin’s contribution to this discussion (especially as I’m a bit of a car guy).

That said I wonder if you could comment more on what you mean by, “Does it hurt him? Only to the extent he wants it to.” You seem to recognize that this relationship you have causes some pain for your husband and it may be that ultimately on balance with the two other factors I mentioned that the pain is a very small part of the equation that ultimately draws you two closer. A necessary evil or downside. While this may be how do you know that he is in control of what he experiences? It only hurts because he lets it hurt. The way I read what you’ve written it seems that you believe that his pain originates from the conversations about the other man that he is initiating and thus he is in control of how much pain he experiences. How are you sure that his pain doesn’t preexist the conversation and this pain isn’t what drives him to initiate the conversations or texts. If this is true he might not be in control of it as you say. Are you implying something along the lines of “what he doesn’t know won’t hurt him?” That if he simply didn’t pursue the details the only relevant factors would be your pursuit of joyful new sex and his pleasure at witnessing some aspect of your desire and that there would be no pain for him?

You write, “And my proof? Well he gets excited when he knows I'm going to the conferences, suggests clothes I should take and will text me while I'm away to ask how it's going.“ This behavior of his seems clearly proof that he has eroticized seeing and thinking about your pleasure independent of his presence but I don’t really see how this proves that he is in control of the pain he experiences or that it doesn’t originate from the fact of your relationship with another rather than from his inquiry about this relationship.

Thank for your time and consideration.

regards, 

JD

Posted by: @mstara

So the difference is that this man gets my blood pumping, he's an exciting distraction but not a threat to my marriage. My husband knows this too, he sees this for what it is and takes his own pleasure from knowing that I'm enjoying exploring/experimenting. Call it cuckolding or poly, we haven't put a label on it, but it is something that he wanted for a long time even if he never thought it would happen, and neither did I.

Good morning MsTara.  Thank you for your reply and your willingness to continue these discussions.  They are helpful and meaningful and I very much appreciate interacting with you (and Emma, and Ruined_Julie, and khorina5, and JD, and Mid_lifeMarty ... I hope I didn't exclude anyone) on this obvious sensitive and titillating subject.  It's important to me that my inquiries are not in any way judgmental of what you and Martin (btw, I'm a car guy too).  Your marriage sounds amazing and is enviable to others that have not experienced the depth of love that can come from a wife being in control of her husbands sex and of course, her own.  

My questions come only from a place of my own fallible emotions when it comes to putting myself in others shoes when when considering this subject being a reality in my life.  Talking them through and witnessing the way others live and manage it is fascinating and helpful.  I'm not sure if my question was a casualty of poor Emma's unintended deletion of comments from yesterday and the day before ... so forgive me if it seems I am piling on.  

OK, enough of the explaining.   My question is ... does it concern either of you that in the natural progression of an ethical non-mongamy relationship with the same person that it's possible, perhaps even likely that the emotional attachment between a wife and her "newness" lover could go to a place that would potentially cause irreparable damage to your primary relationship.  Clearly it isn't the intent of the wife to do anything that would or could permanently upset or damage the foundation of the relationship she has with her one and only spouse.  But, the danger associated with the unknown effects of an obvious deepening emotional unknown outside of the marriage is fraught with landmines.  In spite of whatever the current status of the emotions of all involved, we humans are very subject to the emotions we feel at the time, now and in the future.  What would happen if your relationship with this man brought out latent, previously unknown negative feelings that you may discover about Martin's inability to satisfy your need to experience the joy of the newness associated with being sexual with another man?  What would happen if the other man began to discover feelings of real love for you and began to actually court you in such a way that he might ultimately hope in you feeling the same way about you, and then choose him.  Even if those type of emotions and actions were something that he wasn't consciously aware of, if they were to develop, in either of you, it would substantially change things from where they are now ... unintended or not.  In the matter of love, the old axiom of "the heart wants what the heart wants" is a very powerful force not to be denied.  

This for me would be my greatest fear should my beloved Wife decided that wanted or needed to experience the excitement of a new sexual relationship in order to get her heart pumping.  If I were faced with the prospect of Miss K (my Wife) wanting to take on a new lover, I would support whatever decision she made because my only desire to make her happy in her life.  Clearly we would discuss things at length and take things super slow, like you and the other amazing ladies here have done.  In those discussions I'd express my preference for her to consider that if she were to indulge, that she would consider that she might be able to experience the thrill of that "newness" with a man or woman that she would not see on a recurring basis.  I know that sounds like I am advocating using another as a human sex toy, and perhaps I am ... but even in that scenario, there is always the risk of unplanned and unintended feelings of love for that person developing.  I believe though that in that scenario, the risk would be significantly less because there would be no chance for the development of marital-type relationship.  Recurring and increased frequency of overnight visits alone, and weekends away alone with a different lover for example, comes with all of the ingredients necessary ingredients to make it all a fertile garden for unintended outcomes.  As I have said before, it's all an amazing mind fuck akin to exiting on a razor sharp edge of excitement.  

Again, thank you so much for indulging me and others here, and for sharing your thoughts and feelings in your wonderful marriage to Martin.  

@mstara Thank You, it is awesome what You are living!

I'm afraid that this is now starting to feel like the Spanish Inquisition.
The questions, however allegedly well meaning and respectful, are starting to feel intrusive and judgemental.
Suffice to say that we are not an exceptional couple in any way and that we are not some sort of fantasy poster couple.
Thank you for your interest but I've decided not to comment further on this matter.

Totally respect that. Sorry the questions pushed things too far.

I'll lock this thread for now per your request.

Edit: Nevermind. I just realized that this is Ruined Julie's thread. I'll leave it open but feel free to ignore.

@mstara

Please accept my sincere apologies MsTara.  It was never my intention.  I just feel terrible for the intrusion.

@mstara

i am sorry as well for the intrusive questioning.  i didn’t mean to make you uncomfortable or to feel judged or excessively put on the spot but I can very much understand your feeling this way. Furthermore I would say that I appreciate all of the anonymous sharing that happens here in general and feel that despite the veil of anonymity courage in sharing what is deeply private must always be acknowledged. In my desire to slice and dice the statements of others with a dozens of questions i can lose sight of this truth. So please Ms Tara and Martin accept my apology.

Since my last question has tarnished Ruined-Julie’s otherwise record setting “introduction” thread and I wouldn’t be at all opposed to you Emma deleting my questions if either of you saw fit. 

Regards,

JD

Apologies to @mstara and @ruined-julie as it's Her introduction (also agreed that if anything needs to be removed it's okay with me) 

@evolvingyourman_ivcr4j

You can locked it. It's not a problem.

wondering how and what to contribute, Can anyone help me with what i should say?