Poly-Friending yes, but no cuckolding

@suzzana 

Oh, I try to be. But I'm not perfect ? 

@nika 

Really?

@nika 

So it wasn't pegging in public? Try the parking with a lot of people. I guess someone will see you?

Posted by: @happycuckold

@williamportor I don’t agree with the proposition that FLR gives a wife a “right” to do “whatever she sees fit” with her husband.  FLR’s, like any form of dominant/submissive relationship, need to be “safe, sane, and consensual”, as the old BDSM rule says.  My wife has had lovers, and that has been a source of erotic pleasure for both of us.  But I have consented to that.  Consent is essential and needs to be continuously negotiated.

Dear Happy - If you'd care to read my post again, you'll see I wrote: Women in FLR's have the right "to seek sexual gratification with another, and/or peg their submissive male husband or BF whenever they see fit" This is different than giving her permission to do whatever she sees fit. My apologies if this caused confusion.  

@williamportor Thanks for that clarification.  You are saying that women  in an FLR’s have the right to do the following things “whenever they see fit”:

— have sex with another man

— peg their partner 

Do I have that right now?  If so, I still disagree.  In my opinion, cuckolding and pegging are forms of erotic power exchange that require the consent of the submissive partner.  The word for nonconsensual domination is “abuse”.  

Posted by: @happycuckold

@williamportor Thanks for that clarification.  You are saying that women  in an FLR’s have the right to do the following things “whenever they see fit”:

— have sex with another man

— peg their partner 

Do I have that right now?  If so, I still disagree.  In my opinion, cuckolding and pegging are forms of erotic power exchange that require the consent of the submissive partner.  The word for nonconsensual domination is “abuse”.  

You are saying that women  in an FLR’s have the right to do the following things “whenever they see fit”:

— have sex with another man

— peg their partner 

Yes, that is what I'm saying. I respectfully disagree that consent is required from the submissive partner. Though I believe communication, and respect for the sub male is necessary, requiring consent would no longer make it a female led relationship, but that of a purely equal relationship, with the couple simply experimenting with male chastity. I also respectfully disagree that the dominant female pegging the sub male or and/or having sex with another man constitutes "abuse" since the sub male suffers no harm, except perhaps to his pride. 

For centuries dominant men have had affairs with women other than their wives, and bullied wives into sexual situations they are uncomfortable with, even to the point of inflicting serious injuries, while facing little or no consequences. Today's female led relationships simply turns things around (minus the serious injuries)

A sub male locked in a chastity cage, sexually frustrated and unable to escape, being pegged by a dominant woman, or made to watch quietly and respectfully while she has sex with a well endowed man is perfectly appropriate IMHO...      

@happycuckold Hay Happy.

Depends on the nature of the relationship right. 

I had a no limit's thing going with my wife for about 5 years. Definitely smashed my comfort zones and I got to experience any number of things I would have safe worded out of had there been one.  In the process I discovered a bunch of stuff I really liked that I didn't think I would, and stuff I didn't but some of those things lead to other stuff that was mind expanding in different ways.

Limits are right for some people, for others, not so much.

@brian You say, “I had a no limits thing going with my wife for about 5 years.”  I think I get that.  Essentially, you gave your wife a sort of blanket consent to dominate you however she pleased, so even when she did things that would have made you invoke a safe word, if you had one, you felt honour bound to submit.  Is that a correct understanding?  Your statement about that 5 period period is in the past tense.  Is that because the “no limits thing” wasn’t indefinitely sustainable?

I have given my wife a sort of blanket consent to lead as she sees fit too.  That applies to discipline.  My wife doesn’t require my consent every time she spanks me or punishes me in some other way because she has my blanket consent.  If she had to negotiate consent for each individual act of discipline, her authority would feel less real and less exciting.  But I am bigger than she is, so on a more basic level, I am constantly consenting and could withdraw consent at any time.  

As to my wife being free to have sex with other men “as she sees fit”, she has my blanket consent for that as well.  But I don’t think FLR automatically gives a wife the right to cuckold a husband who believes in the vows of marital fidelity that may have preceded the FLR.  Cuckolding is a big change in a marriage.  And as such, I believe there needs to be careful communication before embarking on that change, and the husband needs to agree that his wife has sexual privileges that are denied to him.  

The same applies to pegging.  Imagine if the genders were reversed and a man forced his wife to submit to anal penetration against her will.  Most people would consider that abhorrent.  In fact, it might even be considered “marital rape”.  I see no reason to think it is any better for a woman to use FLR as a pretext to do that to a man against his will.  That being said, I am turned on by fantasies of cruel women forcing men to do things against their will.  It is a sexy fantasy, but many things that are sexy in fantasy would be harmful in real life.  Rape fantasies are like that, right?  Just because some women have rape fantasies, that doesn’t mean rape would be any less harmful to them in real life.

Consent is complicated in D/s relationships.  But when I see people saying that FLR gives a woman “the right” to dehumanize a man by treating him as an object with no needs and desires of his own, I generally assume that they are passing off fantasy as reality.

Posted by: @williamportor

A sub male locked in a chastity cage, sexually frustrated and unable to escape, being pegged by a dominant woman, or made to watch quietly and respectfully while she has sex with a well endowed man is perfectly appropriate IMHO...      

William, I confess that I find that a potent erotic fantasy.  My wife has had sex with well endowed men, and it has been thrilling for both of us.  But it works for both of us because we are both willing participants.  Sometimes I fantasize that our FLR is a non consensual arrangement my wife has forced on me because the fantasy of nonconsent turns me on.  You think the situation you describe in that sentence is “appropriate” because it turns you on.  But I don’t think a D/s relationship in which the dominant partner truly forced an unwilling submissive to accept such treatment would last.  A truly unwilling partner would be emotionally harmed by it.  That’s why I think it is important to emphasize the importance of consent in a forum like this where people new to the idea of FLR look for information that is realistic, practical, and healthy.

Posted by: @happycuckold

Posted by: @williamportor

A sub male locked in a chastity cage, sexually frustrated and unable to escape, being pegged by a dominant woman, or made to watch quietly and respectfully while she has sex with a well endowed man is perfectly appropriate IMHO...      

William, I confess that I find that a potent erotic fantasy.  My wife has had sex with well endowed men, and it has been thrilling for both of us.  But it works for both of us because we are both willing participants.  Sometimes I fantasize that our FLR is a non consensual arrangement my wife has forced on me because the fantasy of nonconsent turns me on.  You think the situation you describe in that sentence is “appropriate” because it turns you on.  But I don’t think a D/s relationship in which the dominant partner truly forced an unwilling submissive to accept such treatment would last.  A truly unwilling partner would be emotionally harmed by it.  That’s why I think it is important to emphasize the importance of consent in a forum like this where people new to the idea of FLR look for information that is realistic, practical, and healthy.

I have to agree with you Happy on this.  actual consent/non-consent is a murky area for many because there can very well be a murky area for those couples that really haven't "done the work" when it comes to communication.  The very nature of a WLM/FLR would imply, on the service that the man has no choices and must succumb to ANY choice or decision made by the woman.  By having "done the work" I of course am referring to communication, and by communication I specifically mean the establishment of boundaries and LIMITS within the relationship.  Too often a couple will lightly skim over the necessary communication about limits while simultaneously believing they have full discussed and disclosed those limits to each other, when in fact they haven't really.

There are soft limits, and there are hard limits.  Soft limits are "not my thing but ok" and hard limits are "will-not-do"!  Whatever those hard limits are, they MUST be respected and honored without question. For example, a hard limit for most everyone on the planet is no sex with animals, or eating poop, and so on.  Under no circumstance ever should a Dom/Domme be allowed to require a submissive to engage in anything such as that.  Not because it unbelievably disgusting (it is), but because it is a hard limit. Hell, what if a dominant got a sexual pleasure from severing a submissive's limb?  Yes, an extreme and dramatic example of a hard limit, but it does serve a purpose in demonstrating the need for such limits in a relationship.  Forcing a submissive to abandon a hard limit is indeed abuse of the very power the Domme has been given by the sub.  In my opinion, such abuse is a deal-breaker and a relationship ender.  Yes, animal sex, poop eating and even limb severing are extreme and dramatic examples of hard limits that nearly every reasonable person can get on board with, but the extreme nature of those limits clearly demonstrates the importance of limits.

If a couple were to engage in ANY activity, including pegging and cuckolding, there MUST be a complete and and in depth discussion as to whether it is a limit or it is not.  If it is a (hard) limit, then the Dominant does NOT have the right to simply impose it upon the submissive.  Plain and simple.  That said, if something is a (hard) limit for a submissive, like pegging, or cuckolding, or (fill-in blank here), and if those (hard) limits do not align with the pleasure, joy and pleasures of the Dominant, it may very well be the reason why those two don't belong together in the first place.  But in the end, a Dominant Woman (in this case) does not have the right to simply compel the submissive man to engage in pegging or cuckolding or (fill-in blank here) merely by virtue of her status as the Dominant.  

It is why a couple courageous enough to engage in such a deeply emotional activity as D/s or Power Exchange on any level, must be willing to do the work ... actually and fully communicate deeply, often, repeatedly again, deeper still and then do it all over again.  Otherwise, one of the two of them, if not people will be living with the myopic belief that the other is on board when in fact they are not.  I can't think of anything that would break up a loving couple faster than if a Dominant Woman were wrongly believe that fucking another man was alright with her primary man if the her primary only really agreed to it because he was too afraid to tell her that it wasn't.  Happens all the time and like it or not Dominants (men or women), YOU have the absolute and sole responsibility to to dead-on-balls accurate about the nature, depth and honesty of the communication process for both of you .... when doing the work!

Posted by: @happycuckold

That’s why I think it is important to emphasize the importance of consent in a forum like this where people new to the idea of FLR look for information that is realistic, practical, and healthy.

This!

Posted by: @happycuckold

Posted by: @williamportor

A sub male locked in a chastity cage, sexually frustrated and unable to escape, being pegged by a dominant woman, or made to watch quietly and respectfully while she has sex with a well endowed man is perfectly appropriate IMHO...      

William, I confess that I find that a potent erotic fantasy.  My wife has had sex with well endowed men, and it has been thrilling for both of us.  But it works for both of us because we are both willing participants.  Sometimes I fantasize that our FLR is a non consensual arrangement my wife has forced on me because the fantasy of nonconsent turns me on.  You think the situation you describe in that sentence is “appropriate” because it turns you on.  But I don’t think a D/s relationship in which the dominant partner truly forced an unwilling submissive to accept such treatment would last.  A truly unwilling partner would be emotionally harmed by it.  That’s why I think it is important to emphasize the importance of consent in a forum like this where people new to the idea of FLR look for information that is realistic, practical, and healthy.

  Happy - 

IMHO - If a submissive male partner does not "submit" to their dominant woman's wishes, then they are not a submissive...they are equal. Therefore her wishes take priority over his. As far as "A truly unwilling partner would be emotionally harmed by it" I would say to that person (speaking to the male sub) "Get over it! Sexual frustration in a locked chastity cage, pegging from a woman, and watching your Wife or GF get sexual satisfaction from a well endowed man that you can't give her, is simply part of being a sub male, so keep your hands away from the chastity cage, submit to your woman's wishes to peg you, and be supportive when she has sex with other men. Her place is to dominate, your place is to submit" ? 

@subhubphx If a couple were to engage in ANY activity, including pegging and cuckolding, there MUST be a complete and and in depth discussion as to whether it is a limit or it is not.  

Good point. If their agreement prior to her taking control specified no pegging or cuckolding on her part without his consent, then his objections would be valid, however in the absence of such an agreement, he would have to submit to her wishes.

I would point out however that whether or not the males permission is granted regarding cuckolding, specifically with the popular white wife/black bull combination has led to surprisingly few marriage break up's, as the submissive white husband gets used to this arrangement over time. 

Posted by: @williamportor

@subhubphx If a couple were to engage in ANY activity, including pegging and cuckolding, there MUST be a complete and and in depth discussion as to whether it is a limit or it is not.  

 

Good point. If their agreement prior to her taking control specified no pegging or cuckolding on her part without his consent, then his objections would be valid, however in the absence of such an agreement, he would have to submit to her wishes.

I would point out however that whether or not the males permission is granted regarding cuckolding, specifically with the popular white wife/black bull combination has led to surprisingly few marriage break up's, as the submissive white husband gets used to this arrangement over time. 

To each their own of course William, but I will point out that any healthy relationship successfully evolves, and so do their respective limits.  If there is little or no chance for the submissive husband to ever adjust or vary the pervious thought of, and agreed upon limits, be they hard or soft, there is no evolution and therefore no growth.  Only expect compelled behavior and expected adherence to how only a Dominant will/may evolve.  Again, to each their own.  I think the "white wife/black bull" component to fantasy life is just that, fantasy, race induced fantasy.  The cuckolding statistics, whatever they may be, notwithstanding, I think it's a stretch to believe that race based fantasy has anything to do with success merely because a husband gets over it.  Just my opinion, I could be wrong.   

@williamportor I believe that in the vast majority of FLR’s involving cuckolding, the husband doesn’t just “get used to it”, he wants it.  If the guy is turned on by humiliation play, the fantasy of nonconsent makes cuckolding more exciting.  But it would be potentially harmful to make women believe that FLR means they could cuckold an unwilling husband without putting the marriage at risk.  Cuckolding is a specific kink.  Many men are submissive in other ways without having that kink.