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Happycuckold
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@steph I feel a bit sheepish about occupying so much space on Emma’s website—I hope she doesn’t mind—but I have enjoyed this conversation with you and David.  I think our conversation demonstrates the truth of that saying, “The brain is the largest sex organ.”  There is nothing that is inherently “submissive” or “demeaning” in any particular sex act; it is the way we think about particular acts that make them feel submissive or demeaning or completely egalitarian.  Take oral sex, for example.  Because I am sexually submissive by nature, I feel wonderfully submissive when I go down on my wife.  I feel like I am “serving” her. But it’s only submissive for me because I think of it that way. Giving oral sex can also feel empowering because the ability to give your partner orgasms is a wonderful power to have. Also, setting aside the feeling of submissiveness I get from cunnilingus, I enjoy it for purely sensual reasons: the scent and taste of my wife’s pussy is an aphrodisiac to me.  Therefore, I can imagine people enjoying it for reasons that have nothing to do with submission.

The same thing is true of enforced chastity.  I am pretty sure lots of people would think it is demeaning for a wife to lock her husband’s penis in a cage to control his access to orgasms.  And one might think that any man who submits to it must be super submissive.  My wife isn’t interested in chastity cages, but I am envious of the guys here who are locked up because I imagine how amazingly submissive that would make me feel.  Yet you and David see enforced chastity as a purely practical way of enhancing your lovemaking that has nothing to do with domination and submission.  And the thing is, if it doesn’t feel submissive to David, it *isn’t* submissive for him.  

Likewise, whether acts of submission are seen as “demeaning” or “degrading” is entirely in one’s head.  You say David thinks it is “demeaning” to Kevin when Emma makes him kneel in front of her to masturbate.  I agree with David that kneeling is a symbolic expression of submission, but I don’t see anything demeaning or degrading about it.  David also thinks that Emma making Kevin masturbate instead of allowing him to cum through physical contact with her shows a lack love.  I disagree.  It is only the way David thinks about it that makes it so. For most people, masturbation is one of the most secret parts of life.  Most married people do it at least occasionally, but they do it surreptitiously because they would feel ashamed if their partner knew.  Therefore, masturbating in front of one’s partner can feel deeply intimate and liberating.  

You have said that you feel like you don’t don’t fit in here because you and David may be too vanilla.  But I don’t see you as vanilla at all.  I see your relationship with David—and your inter-couple relationship with John and Jane—as deliciously kinky.  On the issue of cuckolding, you are vanilla compared to Emma and Kevin (or my wife and me). But even there you aren’t completely vanilla because your erotic interaction with John has a subtle cuckolding vibe to it. And concerning certain kinks that other FLR couples are into, like spanking and discipline, you and Emma could both be seen as vanilla. There are so many varieties of kink!

Maybe I should shut up now.  Lol

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Posted : 21/09/2021 6:49 am
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@happycuckold I have enjoyed talking with you also.  I must say you open my mind to different ways of thinking about relationships.  I never thought of us as being at all kinky except for what we do with Jane and John and that is just one special couple so I never thought about us as kinky.  At home we are your average husband and wife....that is until you made me think about it.

Dave's concern for a lack of love when Kevin had to masturbate was not the masturbation.  It was that Emma made him do it without her touching him in any way.  Dave sees touching as so important.  He can instantly tell my every mood by the way I touch his arm or shoulder.  Even when we experimented in the early years with orgasms outside the vagina, I always was touching him in a very loving manner.  To him touching says more than any words ever could.  I think that is why he looks at me for my approval when Jane plays with him and he has to touch her in a sexual way.  When we make love the two weeks between his releases he gives me multiple orgasms with both his tongue and fingers but I think what makes him feel he is loved in these sessions is the way I caress his back and face through out.  I play some with his caged penis but it is the sensual touching that tells him I love him.

You are so right.  Sex is as much about the brain as the body.  Take Dave.  Who else would think that touching his face means more than playing with his little boy parts.

 
Posted : 21/09/2021 1:35 pm
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Dave asked me to write about our talk tonight so that Jane would know everything will be okay. 

This isn’t really about our poly-friending or flirting depending on what you call it.  It is about Jane and John though so I am putting it in this topic.  I think Jane will look for it here.

Jane’s mother succumbed to her cancer about 2 weeks ago.  Jane is mostly back to her normal life.  She called me today to tell me that they browse lots of porn and chastity sites.  They got back to doing that the other night.  They often look at this site because they like Emma’s blogs and they check some of the posts.  She was calling to say they just saw where we had posted several topics.  She could tell that Dave had some concerns about people knowing some difficult things about him.  She said that she or John might slip and say something that they would only know by reading it here and she was afraid it would upset Dave.

Jane laughed a little when she said, “I love making him squirm when I tease and torment him but I never want to embarrass him in a way that would hurt him.”

I talked to Dave tonight and told him what Jane said.  He was kind of nervous but I reminded him of how much better he felt letting go of his fears to strangers.  I told him these were his best friends who actually care about him.  Someone you can confide in and they will have understanding and compassion.  Dave thought about it for a moment and said, “You are right as usual.  Maybe it is good.  Maybe it is time to be honest with them.” 

Jane and John Doe (still dumb aliases for our best friends)  are coming over this Saturday night.   Jane said to leave a note at the site if I thought there would be any subjects that had to be avoided and they would check this site before they came over.  I think there will be more talking than games and playing.  Talking about what is comfortable for Dave and of course I am sure Jane will still need to vent some.  Just an evening to get back together.

Now that we have opened this can of worms I will try to update on our activities as time goes on.

 
Posted : 30/09/2021 5:09 pm
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This was quite a weekend.  It was good to get together with Jane and John.  I called them Saturday afternoon and told them Dave was going to do steaks on the grill, probably last grill out of the year.  Said we could do Euro style and eat about 7:30 if they wanted to join us.  Jane thought it was a great idea.

When they got here, Dave offered Jane his condolences and she thanked him and indicated she was doing okay and she didn’t talk about her mother at all.  During supper we just chatted.  Nothing in particular.  John talked about a big project he was working on at work.  It was nice to just catch up.  After we ate we sat in the family room and chatted some more.  I noticed that John was holding Jane’s hand almost all the time and sometimes would caress her back  I think he knew she wasn’t quite okay yet and he was trying to be there for her in a quiet subtle kind of way.  It made me smile. 

We had been chatting for about half an hour and Jane turned to Dave and asked him, “Are you really okay talking about anything and everything?”  Dave surprised me a little.  In a very confident voice he said, “Yes.  Do you have some questions?”  Jane said it wasn’t really a question.  She just wanted to say that his super long arms were always a turn on for her but she never said anything because she knew he was sensitive about his looks.  She said she told John one night that I was so lucky because Dave could hug me and pinch my nipples at the same time.  We all laughed.

Then Dave said, “I’ve never actually tried that.”  He came over to me and told me to stand up and he hugged me.  It was hard to squeeze his hands between my breast and his chest but he did it and he pinched my nipples through my blouse and bra.  I couldn’t stop laughing.  It was not the least bit romantic but it was funny.  Then Jane said, “Let me try it.”  She proceeded to pull her top off and as usual she had no bra on.  She came over to Dave and I told Dave “to have at it.”  Jane is a little more petite than I am and Dave had no problem hugging her and grabbing her breasts and they were both giggling like little kids.  After they separated Jane said, “That is just too weird.  It is like he is hugging you from in front and behind at the same time.”  She put her top back on and we all sat back down. 

Then John asked the biggie.  He wanted to know if we figured out what Dave’s “episodes” were all about.  Dave said not really.  He said he just knows that once in a while he feels like I am doing everything in our marriage and he is doing nothing.  He said that  I am so beautiful, strong, confident, and loving and he is just an ugly geek.  He said, “I’ll feel like I did in high school.  I feel like I don’t deserve someone like her and she must be frustrated because she gives me everything and I give her nothing.”  Then he said, “I need her to hurt me.  I need her to take out all her frustrations on me.”  He paused for a few seconds and the room was silent.  Then he said, “Well look at her!  Look at me!”  At this point Dave looked like he was going to have an episode.  I was very nervous.  Then Jane went over to Dave, took his hand and quietly said, “Dave, I talk to Stephanie all the time.  You are an amazing man.  I have never seen anyone who felt so loved all the time in all my life as Stephanie.”  Dave smiled and asked, “Do you think so?”   Jane said, “I know so.   That is why I am so jealous of her and the way you show her your love.”  She kissed his cheek and then she went back and sat down next to John again.

Whenever I have tried to tell Dave that when he is down on himself he accuses me of not respecting his feelings.   Jane tells him and it’s fine.   He perks right up.  Go figure.

We went back to just catching up and had another drink.  Dave said he had a treat for them for breakfast.  He made a huge frittata with lots of bacon and extra cheese.  All he has to do is bake it for about 20 minutes in the morning.  We gabbed some more and the next thing we knew it was almost midnight. 

Jane said she read in our posts about the games we play.  She said someone replied that it got us all turned on for the sex when we went to bed.  She said, “He is right.”  She went on that the way she and John make love after one of our sessions is much different than normal and really hot.  She said John shoots his load in the first two minutes and we get that out of the way.  Then they spend about a half hour snuggling and petting till John can get hard again.  After that it will be two hours or more, basically till she gets exhausted, of John making love to her every way imaginable.  She said she will get at least a half dozen orgasms and John will leak some but he doesn’t get another orgasm.  He shot his load in the beginning.  Then she went over to her big purse and pulled out a strap on with what looked like about an eight inch dildo.  She said I can’t forget to take “The Boss” upstairs with us.  She said about half way through she pegs the hell out of him and he really leaks then.  Then she looked at me and with a straight face asked me, “wouldn’t it be great if there was some way you could peg him while he was screwing you?  What kind of sensation would that be?”  She had only had three drinks all night but she was pretty wound. 

Then she said, “I really need that tonight.”  She asked if we could play a little to get really turned on.  She said she wanted Dave and her to undress each other real sexy like and John and me to do the same.  I looked at Dave and he was smiling and I said fine.  It took about ten minutes for everyone to be naked.  Jane handed me John’s key from her purse and slipped my necklace off of me.  We unlocked the boys and I started to give Jane the key back and she said, “You need to find a safe place to keep that till the next time we play.”  I thought John was going to s*** a brick.  He said that won’t be for a couple weeks.  Jane said just kidding honey.  Then she said, “but it is Locktober isn’t it?”  John said we aren’t doing Locktober.  Jane just smiled.  I set the key on the table. 

Dave was magnificent in bed.  This was his Saturday for an “O” and he made love to me so sweetly for a long time.  He gave me an oral and then he masturbated me.  Then I rolled up on him and mounted him.  I  told him to be still and to caress me and give me that special feeling.  It only took a couple of minutes and I got that gentle rush and he held me so tight for several minutes.  We snuggled for a while and talked about the evening.  I wanted so much to know why Jane could change his feelings and I’m not allowed to but I didn’t dare ask.  Then I went down on him and got him to the edge and came up and mounted him and when I got to the edge I thrusted a couple of strokes and we both had an amazing “O.”  We snuggled and then I had him rub my breasts and my butt and then pushed him down for one last oral.  We had our final kiss and I curled up to go to sleep in his arms.  It was after two by now and I could hear Jane and John still going in the other room. 

Dave and I got up about nine thirty this morning after a real nice snuggle session.  We came downstairs and Jane and John had left their clothes right there on the floor where they came off.  We just left them.  Dave turned on the oven to heat up the frittata.  About ten o’clock Jane and John came down in just their bath towels and calmly got dressed there in the family room.  Our floor plan is totally open from the kitchen to the family room so we talked while they dressed just as if it was normal. 

They came over to the table and sat down and John was either holding her hand or caressing her back most of the time till Dave had the breakfast served.  We all talked about how good it was to get back together and to play a little.  I handed Jane the key and she said they won’t need that till the end of the month.  John looked distressed to say the least.  I think the longest John has gone is a week and that was just during the five or six weeks when Jane was at her mother’s and he only got to see her when he went up on weekends.  After breakfast Jane put his key in her purse and laughed and told John it is fun to play with your little brain once in a while.  Then she said, “I really needed last night.”  Dave said he’d take care of cleaning up if we wanted to talk.  John said he would help but Dave said, “No I think Jane might need you to hold her hand if they are going to talk.”  Dave was right.  Jane finally was ready to talk about how much she missed her mother.  How they used to talk for an hour or so three or four times a week. And she talked about some of the memories she had with her mother.  Finally she said, “I never told you thank you for being there.  I don’t know if I could have made it through those last hours by myself.  Thank you.”  All I could say was, “You are my best friend.  Where else would I be?”  Jane started to cry and John went from caressing her back to holding her tight.  Then I remembered what Jane told Dave last night and I said, “Jane, you don’t have a reason in the world to be jealous of me.”  She looked at John and gave him a huge kiss.  Dave came over to me and gave me a little kiss and whispered in my ear, “This is why I love you so much.” 

When Jane got her composure back she asked if I would like to just browse the mall for a while.  She said the guys can watch a game or whatever and we can just catch up by ourselves.  We went to the mall.  I bought a couple little things but mostly we just talked and Jane reminisced a bit and by the time we went back to the house she was actually okay.  She went over to John and kissed him and said, “Thank you for putting up with me through all this.”  John said, “I wasn’t putting up with anything.  I was just telling you I love you.”  When I heard that I almost cried.  Any woman who thinks men are not as caring and loving as women needs to meet our men. 

The Eagles played the early game today and I wasn’t there to hold Dave’s hand for the whole game.  The Eagles lost.  They aren’t having a very good year so far.

 
Posted : 03/10/2021 1:41 pm
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Subhubphx
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This has become quite the the odyssey and it is interesting, although not unexpected how things are evolving.  I'll make a prediction that might appear obvious for others, but soon we'll be reading about how Steph has cucked Dave with John during an upcoming get together with the four of you.  Likely something along the lines of Jane will prepare John by assisting with him "shooting his load in the first two minutes", you know, to get that out of the way, and then present the fully prepared to Steph for her use and enjoyment over the next "two hours".  In return, Jane will accept the use of Dave's unique and loving services and lovingly dominant him for their mutual benefit and enjoyment.   Could I be close?

 
Posted : 04/10/2021 5:55 am
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@subhubphx I am 100% sure that will not happen.  I enjoy the touching by John and have no problem with the nudity.  Moving to actual PIV or even oral sex with anyone other than Dave will not happen.  Yes we have evolved a great deal in the last four years and our play has gotten very sexual.  That is one reason why we sat down one night together and established our red line.  We all respect each other too much to ever cross that line.  No PIV.  No oral sex.  No orgasms by a non-mate.  Nothing passionate that would cause an emotionally intimate connection between non-partners.   No play without all people together.  We all agree the relationships come ahead of all play.  We are all comfortable about speaking up if something becomes uncomfortable and that concern WILL be honored.

 
Posted : 04/10/2021 2:00 pm
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Subhubphx
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Posted by: @steph

@subhubphx I am 100% sure that will not happen.  I enjoy the touching by John and have no problem with the nudity.  Moving to actual PIV or even oral sex with anyone other than Dave will not happen.  Yes we have evolved a great deal in the last four years and our play has gotten very sexual.  That is one reason why we sat down one night together and established our red line.  We all respect each other too much to ever cross that line.  No PIV.  No oral sex.  No orgasms by a non-mate.  Nothing passionate that would cause an emotionally intimate connection between non-partners.   No play without all people together.  We all agree the relationships come ahead of all play.  We are all comfortable about speaking up if something becomes uncomfortable and that concern WILL be honored.

Yep!  Not rooting for or against anything, or judging in any manner.  Your beautiful life is enviable.  

 
Posted : 05/10/2021 6:17 am
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@subhubphx

I realize we are playing a little bit with fire.  As Emma points out all the time regarding anything to do with multiple participants, the most important thing is communication.

The aspect of our red line that is most vulnerable is making sure that no emotional bonds beyond friendship are formed.  We all recognize that is something that can sneak up on you.  We all have to be very aware of our feelings and if we start to feel something more special or intimate we will have to be honest with ourselves and call a halt.  So far that has not been a problem.  We stay away from things like hand holding or passionate kissing and hugging.  We try to keep it all playful and a little sexy but not sensual if that makes any sense.

 
Posted : 05/10/2021 4:02 pm
Subhubphx
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Posted by: @steph

As Emma points out all the time regarding anything to do with multiple participants, the most important thing is communication.

Indeed it is Steph!  Keep communicating and keep the safety of your love and heart close so it can be protected.  Also keep an eye on that red line.  Just because you and Dave have established where it belongs in the past, it should also be portable enough to move with your feelings after communication.  Best to you both!

 
Posted : 05/10/2021 4:50 pm
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I wrote this on the computer so that Dave could see it before I did anything with it.  He sat down and read it.  After he finished he got up and gave me a big hug and kiss and said I love you.  He paused a moment and then said.  It’s good.  It’s time.  Thank you for making this happen.

We went to Jane and John’s last night.  It was, of course, mischief night, the night before Halloween.  We all dressed up for the occasion.  We had agreed that we would all wear “explicit” costumes.  Dave went as the “Emperor’s New Clothes” and he wore just a tight pair of satin, flesh colored panties.  I went as Lady Godiva and wore a G-String.  I made a long very fake wig out of black yarn I draped over my shoulder to cover my boobs.  We wore coats to get there and had a bag of clothes to get us home in the morning.  When we got there John answered the door in a string bikini with a sash that said Miss America.  They had gotten a couple big, artificial boobs for him.  Jane had shaved all his genital hair off and to eliminate the “bulge”  they tucked his testicles up into his body and taped his penis back between his legs in his crotch.  Jane was an “early Christmas present” with one large bow strategically placed and a pair of ribbons that went up to cover her nipples and a little piece of tape on each boob to hold them in place.  The bow was held in place by a ribbon that was like a thong and taped to her back side.

Wednesday night when Jane invited us over to the Halloween get together I told Jane I wanted to make sure Dave had to talk about his orgasms and Jane said she and John had visited the site and said they read Dave’s comment about the blog and then they saw my post.  She had a plan to make Dave talk about it but she didn’t say what it was.  She just assured me they wouldn’t make Dave uncomfortable. 

Since it was Halloween eve Jane and John had set up to play scary movies for the night.  The drinks were black witches brew and “Bloody” Marys.  Before the first movie we were just gabbing and Jane sat on Dave’s lap.  She immediately complained because of the hard cage under her and asked for his key.  She slipped his boy parts out and took the cage off and sat back down on his lap.  Dave nervously put his arms around her to hold her on his lap.  Then he got this funny smile.  Jane was giggling.  I went over and sat on John’s lap  rubbed my breasts on his face and asked him with a little laugh if it was hard to get hard with his penis trapped between his legs.  He was obviously feeling some pain.  Shortly after they turned on the scary Halloween movie.  I had my arm around John’s neck and when the sudden scary things happened I pulled against him and my boobs were in his face.   

After the movie, Jane got off Dave’s lap, stood next to him and said, “You and I are going to share.’  She said she was going to tell him something that she had never even told John.  She had never told anyone because it was embarrassing.  She told Dave she was then going to ask him a very personal question and she wanted an honest answer.  Then she asked, “have we got a deal?’  Dave looked at me.  He had a pretty good idea what she was going to ask him about.  I nodded at Dave for him to tell her it was a deal.  He thought for a couple seconds and finally agreed.

Jane told her story.  It turns out when she was almost fourteen her family was staying at a summer house for a week with an aunt and uncle that owned the place.  They had a daughter who was seventeen and very pretty and Jane stayed in her room with her.   It turns out her cousin secretly was a lesbian and she seduced Jane.  They had a torrid week that only she and her cousin knew about.  Jane went on that she actually liked receiving and giving oral sex with her.  They were her first ever orgasms.  Jane said she has never done it with a woman since and she would never trade John for a woman but once in a while she fanaticizes about being with a woman. 

We all talked about it for a long time.  John was taken back for a minute and then he couldn’t decide if it turned him on or it scared him.  Jane looked at John and Dave at one point and asked what would they think about seeing her and me have sex?  Then she looked directly at Dave and said that is not your question!  Neither one answered for a while and then Dave said, “I’ve never thought about Stephie doing anything like that.”  Then he looked at me and asked, “Do you want to?”  I said, “I don’t think so… I don’t know.  I’ve never thought about having sex with a woman.”  Jane turned to me and asked, “Are we still okay?”  I immediately said, “You are my best friend.  Of course we’re okay.”  Then out of the blue I asked her, “Is it something you want to try one night?”  Jane said, “I don’t know.”  All at once the idea seemed both exciting and scary. I don’t think I am bi but …….

Jane then went back over and sat next to Dave.  She asked him, “What are you thinking about right after your orgasm?  Why are you afraid it isn’t real?”  I came over next to him and took his hand and said, “It’s alright.  Open your heart and let it all out.”  Dave and I had talked the other night and he almost seemed like he was going to have an “episode” but he got through it.  He could only tell me that he feels like I give him more love than he deserves and he doesn’t know why.  I felt like he wanted to say more but it frightened him too much.  He just couldn’t let whatever demon was in there out.

In almost a whisper, Jane said to Dave, “Take your time…..  Close your eyes…. Imagine Stephanie has just given you a wonderful orgasm.  Tell me what you feel right now.” 

Dave closed his eyes and he squeezed my hand so hard and he started to get teary.  Jane rubbed his back very lightly.  All at once Dave spoke.  This was the story he told us.  “I remember the worst night of my life.  There was this beautiful girl in high school, Wanda, and one time she hinted she might like to go to the school dance with me so  I asked her to the dance and she said yes.  She whispered in my ear that I should bring condoms with me for after the dance because her parents were going away for the weekend and she had the house to herself.  I was so excited that a beautiful girl wanted to go out with me and maybe have sex.  I was such a fool!  I got to her house and she answered the door.  She asked me if I had a condom and if she could see it.  I pulled it out and handed it to her.  Then, two other couples and a guy who must have been her boyfriend suddenly appeared out of the other room and they started laughing at me.  They knocked me down on the porch.  They pulled my pants and underwear off and threw them in the bushes.  One girl grabbed my penis and stretched it out and laughed.   The other girl told me to get busy with my hand because no girl will ever do it with the monkey man.   Then Wanda handed the condom to her boyfriend and said let’s go to the bedroom.  They all went inside and closed the door and I could still hear them laughing at me.   I got dressed.  I didn’t go right home, I just drove around for a while because I couldn’t even tell my parents what happened.  I lied to them and told them the date was not that good because the girl really wanted to be with this other guy.  I’m so stupid.”

Dave finally opened his eyes and he was crying.  He said, “Stephie gives me an orgasm that is so amazing and I feel this love that I can’t even imagine. Then, that night, those words come back to me and I know it can’t be real.  I just hold her so tight.  I am so afraid.  When she kisses me and I open my eyes and she is still there I am so relieved.  I need to show her so much love and I kiss her neck and her shoulder cause that is the only way I know how to show her.” 

Both Jane and I were crying and even John was teary.  I couldn’t imagine a more cruel joke.  Dave has been carrying that baggage for more than 35 years.  He was never able to tell me.  Somehow Jane was able to make him open up and let it all out. 

We talked for several minutes after that.  Dave said he could never tell me about that night because he was so stupid to believe a girl that pretty and popular would go out with him let alone want to have sex.  He kept saying he was so stupid.  This is why abuse, and bullying is abuse, works.  It is always the victim’s own fault.  They made him feel like such a fool he couldn’t even tell his parents what happened.  I told Dave he wasn’t a fool.  He just believed that being nice was enough to make her want to go out with him.  Then I told him that now I understood why I had to practically drag him to the coffee shop that first night when I gave him back his umbrella.  And why I had to twist his arm to get him to ask me for a date when we got back to my dorm.  I told him Wanda had really done a number on him and it makes me realize how lucky I am that he went out with me at all.  I asked him, “Were you a fool for believing I wanted to go out with you?”  He said, “No.”  Then after a long pause he said, “You don’t know how scared I was those first dates.  No girl had never been nice to me before and I was sure you were going to hurt me.  Sometimes I‘m still scared”  I hugged him so tight and I started to tear up again.  I never cry but last night I couldn’t help myself.  We were all emotionally drained. 

We decided to go to bed without any more movies or play.  Jane said that she and John would just cuddle and talk.  They would have some kinky, wild sex in the morning so we might have to make our own breakfast. 

Dave and I just held each other all night.  No words or anything, just holding.  In the morning I asked him if he was okay.  He said, “I feel better.  Can we make love?” 

We made love.  He was so gentle and so loving and he wanted to do our special PIV.  It was especially wonderful.  Then we cuddled some more and he started to get passionate.  I reminded him to go easy and I would take him there.  After almost an hour of foreplay we shared an amazing orgasm.  He held me as tight as ever but he held my face against his face so gently with one hand and said I love you so much.  and then he kissed my neck and shoulder and I just  laid on him for a long time while he did that and I felt so loved.

Finally I kissed him and gently caressed his face with my fingers and we snuggled for a while.  Then he went down and kissed his way up my legs and gave me my oral orgasm.  He came up and we shared an amazing kiss.  We snuggled for a few more minutes and then I said we needed to get up.

As we were getting dressed he said, “If I wanted to do something with Jane he would be okay with it.”  I didn’t say anything.  I didn’t know what to say.  We got down stairs and Jane and John were eating breakfast already.  John just smiled and said, “I guess things are okay.”  I smiled and said, “they are better than okay.”

We had breakfast with Jane and John and talked quite a while.  I hugged Jane really tight for a minute and told her thank you.  You made him open up when I couldn’t and I know he felt a sense of relief after all these years.  Jane said that she is like the site when he shares his thoughts.  “In a way I am anonymous so he can trust me.  It let him say things to you without him having to actually say them to you.”   

We finally got home about one this afternoon.  It might have been both our best but our hardest  get together ever.

On the ride home Dave didn’t say anything and looked like he was totally somewhere else.  I said a penny for your thoughts and he just said, “I’m not ready yet.”  Shortly after we got home he came to me.  He said, “I am so sorry.  I was too ashamed and too scared to ever tell you.  I am sorry.”  Then he said, “Wanda and her friends were right.  I didn’t deserve you.  For all these years I have been so afraid that someday you would hurt me just like she did.  I am so sorry.”  I hugged him so tight and said I would never hurt you.  I love you.  He said, “I know that now.  This morning when you made love to me it was the most wonderful love we have ever made.  I don’t even remember my orgasm.  I know I had one but all I felt was this amazing rush that said I am special, I am somebody, I am the luckiest man in the world.  I have never felt so loved in all my life.  I finally deserved you.”  A long pause and then,  “There was no flashback.”  He was almost crying. He said he only wishes he could tell me and show me how much he loves me. 

We sat down on the sofa and I held his hand and we just talked.  It seems  in his mind our love making changed and got even more “loving” when we went from every week to every other week.  He doesn’t know how or why, it just did.  He said when he had his orgasms they were suddenly more than orgasms.  He then kind of laughed and said he couldn’t explain it but they were more like lovegasms.  He went on it was then the flashbacks to the night with Wanda started.  He just couldn’t believe I loved him so much because nobody could love him that much.  It didn’t seem real till he would open his eyes and I was still there.  It was like I was waiting for you to laugh at me or be gone.  I am so screwed up.  Why do you love me so much?  I just put my arms around him and said because you're you.  

Then he  said, “I think that may be what my “episodes” are all about.  Wanda must get in my brain and I feel so unworthy and I need you to hurt me, just like she did.  You do all that stuff to me to humiliate me and hurt me and suddenly I am okay again.  Does that make sense?” I said, “it makes perfect sense.  But last night you gave Wanda the boot and now you are free of her.”  He squeezed my hand so hard and said I love you so much. 

Dave has been bubbly the rest of the afternoon. 

It didn’t help his sense of humor though.  He said he is taking me out to supper tonight.  He said, “You will be GOBLIN up whatever you want for Halloween super.” 

 
Posted : 31/10/2021 1:27 pm
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I was busy with the abuse support group on Monday and Tuesday.  This Morning I asked Dave before he left for work if it would be alright if I invited Jane over for coffee.  He knew right away it had nothing to do with having coffee.  He said, “ You probably need to figure stuff out.  You don’t want to let stuff run around in your head.”  Then he got this funny smile.  We hugged and kissed and he said he loved me and left for work.  I called Jane and asked her if she wanted to come over for coffee.  She said, “I need to talk too.” 

She arrived about a half hour later.  When I opened the door she looked at me like she needed a hug and a kiss.  We did.  It was not a passionate kiss but it was on the lips.  We sat down at the table and started to talk.  It was the first time I ever felt clumsy talking to Jane and I think she felt the same way. 

Jane tried to explain about Saturday night.  She said her little affair with her cousin all those years ago isn’t so much embarrassing as it is scary.  She said she isn’t attracted to women but at the same time the memory is actually a fond one.  Back then she actually liked what happened.  Then she hit me with the biggie.  She said that when she has those fantasies it is always about me.  I asked her if it was because we are best friends or are you attracted to me.  She said she didn’t know.

Then she asked me what my real reaction was when she asked the fellows what they would think if we made out.  I told her that when she told her story I didn’t think anything of it one way or the other.  When she added me to the equation I suddenly got a chill.  I was aroused and at the same time a little frightened.  I never thought I would ever consider such a thing but I looked at you and you were so beautiful and so vulnerable, For just a moment I wanted to touch you right then and there.

Jane moved over by the sofa and slipped off her top and as usual she had no bra on.  I walked over and took off my blouse and turned around and Jane undid my bra.  We sat down and she took it off of me in a very sensual way.  We caressed each other’s breasts and then we kissed with a little bit of tongue.  Then I kissed her one breast and she reached down and put her hand under my skirt and rubbed my vagina through my panties. 

After a few minutes we stopped and sat back up.  I said, “It felt good but I don’t feel anything like I do with Dave.  It wasn’t something I have to do.  I don’t understand what it means.  I don’t know anything more now than I did before.”  Jane said, “I think We’re just special friends.  We aren’t lovers and it isn’t about sex.  It is nice to feel like we can touch each other but I agree, it isn’t at all like it is with John.”  Then she said, “It is nice to know we can show each other a little affection if we want or need to.  I feel so close to you as a friend I love you in a strange emotional way that I don’t have with John.”  I told her I totally understood, I have moments I feel like that.  We hugged and had a little simple kiss on the lips and we both felt a lot better. 

We put our tops back on and just talked for a while.  At one point, Jane asked what do we do if when we play Truth or Dare the fellows want us to make out for them like a couple of horny lesbians at the porn sites.  I laughed and then I said, “It might be kind of fun.  You have a fantastic body.”  Jane smiled and said she would be game for that.  

I asked Jane if we needed to bring up the “limits on sex between non-spouses” when we all got together again.   I said that we are probably pushing them a little even if it isn’t in the expected way.  She nodded.  Then she said that I should probably write about this.  We could see how the boys reacted and they wouldn’t be totally surprised when we talked about it.  We talked a bit more and then Jane said she should probably get home.  She put on her coat and turned to say goodbye.  We didn’t actually say goodbye.  We just shared a simple kiss and she left.

I don’t think either of us is Bi but after this get together I am comfortable with physically touching and even kissing Jane because we are so close.  There was no sexual arousal when we did all that “stuff.”  It didn’t feel wrong or bad.  It just felt comfortable.  I don’t know where it will take us. I know I have no desire to do that with any other women.  I don’t think Jane and I are lovers but we are so much more than friends.  She is very special. 

 
Posted : 03/11/2021 9:09 am
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@steph Thank you for sharing both of those last two moments in your lives.

Congratulations to Dave for opening up about such a horrible moment in his youth that he has held on to for so long. It must be freeing. Most of us men, hang on to everything, we are taught from an early age to not share any of our feelings because it will come back to haunt you…men are brutal to each other, in most cases

I suspect your and Jane’s relationship has changed, not in a bad way, contrary, in a very good way. Whether that entails encounters between the two of you in the future, who knows…but you know how you feel about each other at the very least and certainly there is no elephant left in the room between you.  

You two (Dave and yourself) seem to be willing to share the most intimate moments of your lives here, I suppose in a way we all are,  but it’s more like you two use it almost in a therapeutic manner? Expressing yourselves openly. Its to be commended. 

 
Posted : 04/11/2021 7:48 am
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@djv

When I first joined this site a few months ago, I shared some things that were very upsetting to Dave but then he realized that in spite of using our first names it was still anonymous and many people were very supportive.  

Then he shared how his high school gym teacher dubbed him the Orangutan and it stuck and he was mocked as the Monkey Man for three years and I believe he felt like the Monkey Man for all these years  after.  He suddenly felt like a weight had been lifted from his shoulders.  So yes, this place has become a way for us to tell our story, the wonderful and the bad, and I think it has been good for both of us, especially Dave.  We talk all the time and he shares all of his daily ups and downs with me and I with him and we always feel good after talking.  But, as you can see, some things are still buried in his mind from all those years of being bullied.  This was a biggie and I can't thank Jane enough for finding the way to for him to finally let go of it.  

There were some problems when he created this mental connection with Kevin because he thought he saw a parallel to his life in Kevin's life.  He got very upset when he felt like Kevin wasn't being shown any love during his orgasms.  He finally came to terms with the fact that Kevin is not Dave but the other night when he read how Kevin now gets to orgasm in Emma's comments on her latest blog I saw a sense of relief and he said to me, "finally Kevin gets to feel what I feel."  I think there is still a feeling of connection there.  

I feel closer to Jane now than I have ever felt to anyone other than Dave.  I am very close to my mother and father but in a totally different way.  I don't know exactly how I feel or where we are going but I am willing, no wanting, to let it play out wherever that leads us.  Both fellows have indicated if it turns more sexual they do not have a problem.  There big concern seems to be that it never takes away from the closeness or intimacy we have with them.  They are amazing fellows.  They are more concerned about the emotional aspect of the relationship than the physical.  I love Dave so much and I think Jane loves John just as much.  

 
Posted : 04/11/2021 2:46 pm
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Jane and John came over Last night.  It was a forty fifth birthday party for John.  I wasn’t planning for it to turn into a play session because this is a NO “O” Saturday for Dave.  We had gotten John a couple of gag gifts and I made him a chocolate cake for desert and I made a confectionary “cage’ for the top.  It was a fun party.  The fun was mostly at John’s expense but he took the ribbing well.

Afterwards we were sitting around talking.  Neither one of the fellows had yet reacted to what I wrote about Jane’s and my encounter earlier this week.  They had both read it but just shrugged it off without comment.  Jane finally asked the boys if they thought we had to revisit our rules about sexual activity between non-mates outside the group activity.  Dave said it didn’t seem like it was a problem.   He said it is not like you are cheating on us.  You are not with another man.  It seems like it is just a special kind of friendship.  John nodded in agreement. 

Then John said something that made both Jane and me take pause.  He was concerned that Jane had said she loves me in a special emotional way.  I give her something that he can’t.  He said he is still learning to make love to her the way Dave makes love to me.  He went on that when he gets it right the feeling is very special and he does not want us to ever take that away from him.  Dave said he was more worried about the emotional attachment than the sex.  He asked if we share things that we don’t share with them.  Jane said, “Of course.  She said some of a woman’s feelings are different from a man’s and only another woman would understand.  She added, “It will never change how we love you and we will always need everything we have with you.  She told John she never wants to lose the feelings they share on the nights they make love instead of having sex.  She said it is very special for her too.”  I added that when we share those feelings it makes us stronger and that helps us share our feelings and our love with you.  I said, “We are a support system for each other.”  I think both fellows felt more comfortable.  It is interesting that both fellows were more worried about our emotional attachment than a possible sexual relationship.

Jane then said, “It is still John’s birthday.  Shouldn’t Stephanie spank him forty five times on his bare ass?”  She made him drop his pants and lay across my lap.  I gave him a dozen light swats and Jane came over and spanked him really hard about five smacks.  She said this is how we do it.  I spanked him a little harder but not like Jane did till I hit forty five.  His butt was a little red even with my lighter smacks.  Jane was laughing and said that they spank each other regularly and it is a real turn on.  She said, “The redder the better.”

Then Jane turned to Dave and asked him if he would like to spank her.  Dave said he couldn’t hit a woman.  Jane said, “It’s not hitting a woman.  It’s spanking a very bad girl.”  Dave said he didn’t know if he could do that.  Jane pulled down her panties and lifted her skirt and told Dave to put his hand on her ass.  He touched her butt and she laughed and said, “Imagine how nice that will feel when you have it really, really warm.”  Dave pulled his hand away and was definitely out of his comfort zone.  Jane just giggled and said, “Someday”  and pulled her panties back up. 

We talked for another hour or so before going up to bed.  We had all had several drinks so there was no way they were driving home.  Based on what we heard coming from the guest room, John had a very good birthday. 

 
Posted : 07/11/2021 7:50 am
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