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Why isn't it talked about more?

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Stevesub
(@stevesub)
Posts: 48
Estimable Member
 

@subhubphx No that's fine, I was just thinking that for myself I have two personas (probably more actually). One is assertive, pretty alpha, but that's for the outside world and I can't wait to get to my favourite place, which is definitely beta.

Incel is a contraction of the term Involuntary Celibate. It's a particularly sick community of men who believe that the reason women reject them is completely down to faults with womankind and nothing to do with their own shortcomings and misogynistic attitudes. Very unpleasant and full of hate.

 
Posted : 18/12/2021 4:49 am
Evolvingyourman
 Emma
(@evolvingyourman)
Posts: 1046
Famed Member Admin
 
Posted by: @stevesub

Incel is a contraction of the term Involuntary Celibate. It's a particularly sick community of men who believe that the reason women reject them is completely down to faults with womankind and nothing to do with their own shortcomings and misogynistic attitudes. Very unpleasant and full of hate.

It is the whole passive aggressive "nice guy" mentality. I'm a nice guy, all the women want is bad guys. Why don't women throw themselves at me? As @stevesub said, a particularly disconnected group of "woe is me" men.

 
Posted : 18/12/2021 11:05 am
nevertoolate, subhubphx, nevertoolate and 3 people reacted
Dino
 Dino
(@dino)
Posts: 5
Active Member
 


I think personality and sexuality are separate animals. Sex is an escape. I think it's safe to say, The godfather of crossdressers, J Edgar Hoover was an A-type. But when he wasn't trying to control everything and everybody he dressed in womans clothes to escape.

How somebody acts to put food on the table and how they act in the home can be polar opposites.

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Posted : 18/12/2021 12:33 pm
Jessie
(@jessie)
Posts: 10
Eminent Member
 

Here's a few reasons we don't talk much about chastity:

1 - Guys think it's strange. I can see the panic in the faces of guys when I show them my cage. Complete panic. For most, losing control of your own penis is a nightmare, something out of a horror movie. Most are not really ready for it.

2 - It's still kinky. In general, it's still something you expect in a hardcore BDSM porn scene, not in a regular vanilla relationship. So if not in a BDSM relationship, people won't really think about it much...

3 - Trust. For most, trusting someone with your key is a bit too much...

4 - Meh. A lot of girls just don't really want a submissive guy in a chastity cage (yet?).

5 - Coming out: It usually involves a guy coming out about it, so it's not something a woman will bring up just to get a conversation started, nor something you try ocasionally (like sexy lingerie). There is a need for a a very awkward conversation even before you start...

Least but not last: let's not put people in categories. The whole alpha/beta/somethingelse is just a way of making people conformig to stereotypes. It's based on this 17th century idea that men and monkeys are pretty much the same, and that there is always a strong guy that have sex with all the females while the others just watch (let's face it, that is not how it happens...) - also: being a jerk is not the "right way" of being a man.

 
Posted : 19/12/2021 1:22 pm
nevertoolate, Understudy74, Stevesub and 9 people reacted
Stevesub
(@stevesub)
Posts: 48
Estimable Member
 

@jessie Couldn't agree more. I do it (caged as I write this) and even I think it's kinky. Though I love handing over the key.

 
Posted : 20/12/2021 5:54 am
nevertoolate, bestwhencaged, nevertoolate and 3 people reacted
Tincup
(@tincup)
Posts: 161
Member
 

@subhubphx 

Great reply!

I love that quote and just recently saw it somewhere else, but cannot remember where. Where did you here it.

 

 
Posted : 19/03/2022 8:39 pm
Subhubphx
(@subhubphx)
Posts: 1064
Member
 
Posted by: @tincup

@subhubphx 

Great reply!

I love that quote and just recently saw it somewhere else, but cannot remember where. Where did you here it.

 

I don't remember where I heard it but yeah, it's a good one.  

 
Posted : 20/03/2022 5:46 am
Mrs. J-K
(@mrs-j-k)
Posts: 35
Estimable Member
 
Posted by: @mstara
Posted by: @bestwhencaged

my apologies as this is OT, but i really hate this alpha male/beta male bullshit. 

Completely agree. In my experience there aren't any 'alpha' males just arrogant ones, and that's not appealing to most women at all, well certainly not me.

The terms “Alpha” and “Beta” are used incorrectly all the time.  An Alpha male is self-assured and confident.  He is the one who steps up and takes control when something needs to be done.  He is about protecting his family and friends.  But as I said he is about self-confidence.  He has no trouble having a tea party with his 6 year old daughter and her friends.  She can paint his nails and if he can’t get it all off by Monday morning so what.  His wife wants to go shopping and her friend is busy, he takes her and holds her purse while she tries on a dozen sets of clothes.  He does his share around the house and changes some diapers just because it needs to be done and he understands it is his house and his child too.  A Beta doesn’t do any of these things because the Beta lacks the confidence and does not want to be seen as weak.  I understand these descriptions go back to the 80”s.  In today’s world, Alpha’s are thought of as bossy and self-centered.  Beta’s are thought of as good because they do what they are told. 

If you are looking for a good husband you do not want a Beta.  You want an Alpha.  Granted, the Alpha male is going to initially want to take charge of the bedroom because society has taught him to and because he probably has a stronger sex drive than his wife.  But men, especially Alphas and especially as they mature value the relationship and their wife as a first priority.  With good communication they learn what is important to their partner in the bedroom and let her take the lead there.  It can take time and be a challenge because the Alpha male probably has a strong libido and wants orgasms frequently..  This is where chastity can be a very useful tool.  It takes time to teach him that for his wife, intimacy without sex is often more important than the sex.  If you can do this without the use of a cage as D and I did fine.  If you both find that a chastity device makes it much easier, that is fine too.  A true Beta, on the other hand, will never relinquish his bedroom “rights.”

Actually, I do not like labels of any kind placed on people in a relationship.  The term submissive gets applied to any male in an FLR.  Unless the FLR is actually a dominatrix/submissive relationship in which the man has few or no rights or say, the man is not submissive.  Initially when I joined this site I believed that this was the kind of relationship Miss Emma was selling, but based on her couple of responses I may have been reading too much into what she says in her blogs.  But I digress.

In an FLR the man is primarily trying to satisfy the woman he loves the best he can.  If she loves him, his wants and needs, and feelings are equally important in the relationship.  He isn’t doing his share in raising the children or helping with housework because she says he has to.  He does it because he sees it as a responsibility.  If in the FLR, the woman sees this as a way to make her man do everything and pamper her while giving little in return, then she is just an entitled princess taking advantage of a man who loves her.  In a true FLR the woman leads in many aspects but both work to get through life and its challenges together.

I also do not like the term “power exchange.”  I know how it came about and society sucks in how it teaches boys and girls how to behave and makes it very difficult for them to grow up to be men and women.  It should not be seen as one partner having power over the other.  It is each partner doing what they do best in the relationship.  If the woman starts to see it as “power” the risk is that eventually she begins to love the power more than the man.  Then she starts to turn into a bitch. 

I’ve rambled on long enough but this placing labels on people and relationships is something that gets in my craw and I get a little carried away. Miss Emma and subhubphx, Sigma is just another label trying to find a home somewhere between alpha and beta to say there are some good men that are submissive but but not always.  

 
Posted : 20/03/2022 6:35 am
Subhubphx
(@subhubphx)
Posts: 1064
Member
 

@mrs-j-k   Yup, I hate labels too because the misunderstanding and subsequent misuse of the will inevitably be used to mislead, purposefully or otherwise. 

All that said, what would you call a man that is logically alpha in every aspect of their life, leader in the community, business owner providing people and families with a satisfying career and the means to live a "good" life with integrity and honor, a mentor to hundreds over the years, revered coach to young people in sports, etc. and so on, all of which requires alpha characteristics .... yet knowingly, happily and purposefully surrenders and yields all dominance and yes, power to his beloved, redheaded (love redheads) wife for the intended purpose of providing bliss in her life and marriage?

Yeah, it's ironic ain't it?  Decrying the use of labels then, asking for an opinion on what label would apply to me.  

 
Posted : 20/03/2022 7:08 am
Mrs. J-K
(@mrs-j-k)
Posts: 35
Estimable Member
 

subhubphx

I just call him a man.  If that doesn't do it for you call him a good man.

Does he truly yield power to her or does he just care enough about her to let her lead in the relationship because he trust her love and her judgement.  His life is about leadership and stress and he probably adores his wife and loves her very much and wants her to be happy and knows she will want the same for him.  

Unless you wife is just using her leadership role to control you this is not at all; about power.

 
Posted : 20/03/2022 7:47 am
Allabouther
(@allabouther)
Posts: 299
Member
 

Holy cow, @Mrs. J-K.  Do you have a window into my mind?

In one short post, you have accurately summarized so many of my views and feelings.

I enjoy reading the blogs and forums on this website because they give me a way to continually reassess and make course corrections as I am going to through a powerful change in my relationship with my girlfriend to an explicitly acknowledged flr.  I have no friends who are facing the same issues (as far as I know), who I can talk to. 

I am so happy you have decided to become an active participant here.  You speak my language.  Whenever I see that you have made a post, I cannot wait to see what you have written because you always have something thoughtful and pertinent to say, especially is it may relate to my life and my relationship right now.

I was interested when I saw this thread addressing the terms “alpha,” “beta,” and “sigma.”  Words are just words, and as we see in the world today, the same word can have very different meanings to different people.  [In fact, often the meaning of words is intentionally destroyed to achieve a political end.]  But, in reading the thread, I thought I might learn something about how these words are used by others might help me better express my outlook on the world.  In my view, it is only when we get beyond the labels and get to the meaning that we are able to effectively communicate.

I read and reread the posts.  I read the linked articles.  I read some articles on my own and watch a few videos on YouTube.  I found two things:  One; there are so many different meanings for these terms as used by different people, that the use of the terms alone doesn’t really tell me anything about what any particular writer is saying.  Two; I did not see myself as being best described by any of the terms as used by most of the people making comments.  What?  I mean I know I am an unusual guy, but I don’t fit any of the descriptions?  As a consequence, I did not join the discussion.

Then came your post this morning.  You have me down to a “T.”  Frankly, I don’t care if I am what others call an “alpha,” a “beta,” or an “omega,” for that matter.  I am what I am.  But YOUR description of an “alpha” has me pegged.  You have me nailed all the way down to my strong desire to orgasm frequently, my recognition that my orgasms need to be under the control of the female leading my relationship, and the fact that my need to be “chaste” or “retain” doesn’t require a chastity device so long as I actually follow through on my commitment to my girlfriend.

Since I have committed to giving 100% control of my sexual release to my girlfriend, the frequency of my orgasms has dropped dramatically.  But I feel very sexually connected to my girlfriend and I feel MORE powerful than I have ever felt in my life, not less.  I don’t feel I am being abused or deprived at all.  I have realized that the previously-assumed link between my orgasms and my feeling of ultimate sexual satisfaction doesn’t really exist.  Sure, an orgasm can feel great and it is possible for it to be a part of a feeling of ultimate sexual satisfaction.  But, I have realized that if it happens, it is merely a coincidence.  The orgasm is in no way required for the feeling of ultimate sexual satisfaction.  In fact, I find I frequently achieve higher levels of sexual satisfaction totally without an orgasm for myself.

So this leads me to your statement that you really don’t like the phrase “power exchange.”  Once again, we come to the question of meaning.  As I understand your problem with it, you seem to feel that most people use the phrase in relation to societally normative behavior and one partner having power over another.  I understand that viewpoint, absolutely, and recognize that many, maybe even most, people use the phrase meaning exactly the way you describe it.

But I use the phrase “power exchange” a lot and it means something very different to me.  In my current relationship, I feel there is a power exchange as we have both embraced that the focus of our sex should be her pleasure.  The power exchange for me is giving up my bedroom “rights” to someone I absolutely trust because it liberates me and allows me to lean on and rely on her.  She is not a whip-wielding bitch who is beating me into submission.  She is nurturing me and caring for both of us with my total consent and increasing appreciation.

Likewise, she is giving up the perceived “power,” or safety, that comes from operating within the bounds of the societal “norm” as far as sexual behavior is concerned and she is embracing a different range that is defined by her own satisfaction.  I am EMPOWERED myself when she trusts me enough to fully support her in leaving the bounds established by society and claiming her own. 

Of all the things that we are doing together, nothing makes me feel more “alpha male” than being able to create an environment where she can freely and unabashedly live as her true self, not as some caricature of what a woman should be.  To use your terms, giving her 100% control over my orgasms is no different than letting a daughter paint my fingernails.  The female gains something that comes at the expense of my freedom to be in charge of myself (so there is a power exchange), but I don’t see how I am losing anything in the bargain.  I feel more power in knowing I can be supportive of the person I love than I lose in keeping my fingernails professional-looking.

 
Posted : 20/03/2022 8:27 am
Mrs. J-K
(@mrs-j-k)
Posts: 35
Estimable Member
 

@AllAboutHer

You said, "The power exchange for me is giving up my bedroom “rights” to someone I absolutely trust because it liberates me and allows me to lean on and rely on her."

No one,  male or female, has "Bedroom Rights."  Love making of any kind, whether sexual or not must be consensual by both partners.  Beyond that, it should be WANTED by both partners at the time it occurs.  It doesn't matter if you are boyfriend/girlfriend or husband/wife.  Anything less approaches rape.  Even if it is consensual but not wanted by one partner, that partner is going to feel taken advantage of.   

You may call it power exchange if you wish but what you really have, as you said yourself, is having trust in the person you love to love you in a way that she is comfortable and feels loved.  That is not about power.  If it becomes about the power the trust will slowly disappear.  Hopefully, the love she shows you is enough to satisfy your needs for feeling loved.  This would normally mean loving you in a way that provides you with a loving, intimate orgasm from time to time.  There are some men who feel no need for the actual release and are content with nothing more than intimacy and the feeling they get in satisfying their partner.  They are the exception.  Where ever you fall in the frequency spectrum is what is normal for you.  It is important that you and your girl friend find that balance that works for both of you.  From what you write it appears you have found that balance.  But always keep talking.  These are living emotions for both of you and you need to let each other know how you feel as you grow and change.  

 
Posted : 20/03/2022 5:25 pm
Allabouther
(@allabouther)
Posts: 299
Member
 

@Mrs. J-K  Point well taken.  As a lawyer, I have to explain to people all the time that there is a vast difference between "power" and "authority."  I only mentioned the phrase "bedroom 'rights'" because you used the term in stating the absolute that "a true Beta, on the other hand, will never relinquish his bedroom 'rights,'" implying, at least, that some people, Beta's in particular, think there are such things.

Of course, I do not, and I am glad that you clearly understand that I don't think there is either.   I don't think I like "authority-exchange" either.  I definitely feel there is a mutual exchange going on, although I am not sure it is "authority" that is moving in both directions.  

If it is negotiated, consensual, and respectful, how would you characterize the exchange?

 
Posted : 20/03/2022 5:58 pm
Mrs. J-K
(@mrs-j-k)
Posts: 35
Estimable Member
 

Yes, a Beta  believes he has "bedroom rights."  Most rapists are actually Beta's because rape is rarely about sexual gratification but rather about sexual power over a woman.  The rapist is usually a pretty insecure individual.  

I really don't see what you are doing as an exchange at all.  I see it as mutual love and caring.  You are not bartering for anything.  The only thing that is being exchanged is love.  You work together to find the maximum happiness and satisfaction for both you and your girlfriend.  Maybe you could make a case that you are exchanging one form of giving and receiving love for a better a better form, one that brings you closer in the bedroom.  The bedroom is as much about emotion as it is about sex.  Women tend to be better at understanding and dealing with emotions.  If all men understood this, as you and your girlfriend have come to understand it, I probably would have had a lot fewer clients. LOL  It is about making love and your orgasm just happens at those moments when she wants that special feeling that happens when you both orgasm.  Unfortunately for you fellows, she needs that feeling less often than you would like.  Fortunately for you fellows, when it happens it is better than if it happened all the time.  

Please don't see yourself as yielding power or even authority to your partner.  See yourselves as equals in the relationship.  You are letting the fact that, unlike most men, your bedroom is more about the mutual love than your orgasm make you believe you are submissive to her.  Not true.  You are, as you say,  showing her respect and love and she is doing the same for you because as you also say, there is negotiation.  Negotiation is not about power or authority.  It is about compromising to find the best fit.

 
Posted : 20/03/2022 7:31 pm
Allabouther
(@allabouther)
Posts: 299
Member
 

@Mrs. J-K I am going with “trust exchange.”  It is mutual and it is at a different, higher  level than it was before.

 
Posted : 20/03/2022 7:54 pm
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